I am having a problem with a gun I am engraving. It is an old Egnlish side by side, a Fred Willaims 12ga. The owner wants it to be cleaned up and restore the original engraving. I am finding rust pockets in the metal. I want to try and dill a hole a bit (.010) smaller than a piece of dowl, heat up the metal to expand the hole and carefully tap in the dowl, then aneal and engrave. I am not sure if this is the best way to solve the problem or not plus there are several pockets of rust. I have the piece polished to a very nice lusture, I layed out the parts to engrave and, "click" rust, re-sharpen, "click" rust, re-sharpen, well I was wondering if anone had an idea. Thanks,
Tad
Tad Coffen
Chilton, WI 53014-9502 920.898.5789 - Wednesday, October 05, 2005 at 01:50:20 (EDT)


Tad Coffen
10/5/2005 4:54:23 PM

Tad, if I am understanding your problem, this should work very well for you.
Where you locate a rust pocket, under cut it in two opposing directions, using the correct size of inlay undercutting tool.
Mine are shaped like a miniture flat screwdriver, only with a sharp edge.
Inlay a small piece of soft iron binding wire, available in
10-25 thousands diameter from jewelry tool suppliers.
Just give it a try first on a practice plate to get the hang of it. To give it a try, strip or burn the paper off of a grocery store twist tie. That is soft iron wire inside.

John Barraclough
10/8/2005 1:24:29 PM

John, thanks for responding. I have not thought of that and I will give it a try. Some of the pockets are bbigger than .025, however, I will indeed practice your tip and see if it can be utilized on the smaller pockets. Some of the pockets are very shallow and I feel the inlay tip might work. Some of the pockets are .125 and rather deeep. My consern as I told the individual commisioning the work is, the saftey of the gun. He wants to use the gun at his upscale gun club. I don't want a piece of metal in a criticail area to come out. Even though the gun will more than likely not be affected, it does not set right with me doing a job and not being as close to sure that the gun will be safe as well as looking great. I am over two thirds done and he got all excited on a visit to see the progress. he was happy that it look as it does. We went over the rust issue and he told me to do what I think is right and to him the gun looked great. I can not live with my self if someone was hurt from a defect I knew was in the firearm. Even a rust pocket. Thanks again John.
Tad

Tad Coffen
10/8/2005 5:43:56 PM

Ok, I guess most of the membership has little experience with pockets of rust in older firearms. I thought The "Guild" would have at least several tips. So I will ask if anyone knows of a blacksmith maybe that can address this problem. I have a customer that whats his firearm back looking good. I want it to be looking good also, but safe to shoot. If there are other organizations that could help, please let me know it they are out there. I guess if I get no response thay wil be an improtant message also. Resdpectfully, Tad

Tad Coffen
10/9/2005 4:54:21 PM

Tad, glad to be of help. For bigger/ deeper areas, you can use a section of bailing wire. If that's too big split it down the length and anneal the end while still attached to the roll.
After practice plate, install a couple of sections in the gun. Assemble the gun and take it to a range and shoot it. If soft iron inlay is done correctly, it is no more likely to fall out than any other properly installed inlay. It usually blues up to be an invisable repair.

John Barraclough
10/9/2005 5:34:49 PM

Tad, three things I forgot to mention. I'm sure you know these, but just in case.
The bottom of rust pockets often have a glass hard deposit of oxides. Break this up with a punch shaped like a slightly blunt scribe before you cut through the bad spot to create a little line to receive your soft iron. Then go ahead and undercut this short line. Saves a lot of graver points.
Also, regular size soft iron binding wire is avaliable at most
hardware stores, as you know. You need to use a wire that is a close size match for your undercut pocket, not way oversize.

John Barraclough
10/9/2005 6:02:58 PM

Thank you John;

I indeed tried several prctice plates and filled in the areas with the wire. I will indeed try the gun several times. I am sure you are correct. Inlay does not or I far as I know when done as I was taught, does not come out. I was in a class and Lee Griffth was the instructor. He showed us worked with us and got it on the first try and have had little problrms since. My line consistancy was a problem, but practice, practice and then practice has fixed that. Thanks again John

Tad Coffen
10/11/2005 2:11:17 PM

Tad, I just returned from a trip and saw your question. I have used the soft iron inlay many times to fill rust pits and haven't had any problem with them. Some were a good bit larger than .025 inch. I found that when there is a lot of pitting and some overlap, turning them into a short cut line and then inlaying that worked well. Be aware that if the part is going to be hot dip blued that you may get a slight difference in color and under some lighting conditions the spots can be seen, at least when you are looking for them. Rust bluing does not seem to have this problem. Nor does plating. Be sure you anneal the iron and clean it before inlaying and try to set it with the first hit because it will work harden quickly and will be difficult to set with the second hit. I have done guns that required some 80 or so inlays to remove the major pitting. If you have any more questions I will be online usually once a day.

Sam Welch
10/11/2005 6:22:22 PM

I have found in many cases these pockets are actually slag included in the metal from when the " crucible steel " these old english guns were made from was formed.

Barry Lee Hands
11/7/2005 9:16:56 AM

Tad,

Just read your concerns about the repairing the pitting in the fine english shotgun you are working on. Sounds to me like all the advice you are getting should head you in the right direction. I'm sure you have already considered this but, is this a damascus barrel gun? Some very fine english guns (and others) are out there with damascus barrels. If this is one of them, that is a major concern with a collector who wants to use his gun at the local gun club. There are several options available to enable the use of a damascus barrel gun. 1. Rebarrel. 2. Shoot loads designed for use. 3. Look at it but don't use it.
Food for thought

Weldon Lister
11/13/2005 11:07:12 PM