I have a couple of the Buck 525 pocket knives. Are regular gravers OK for engraving these knives or will I need carbide? I know the carbide can last longer between sharpeneing but are more brittle. What metals are they required?

Kevin Monahan
4/30/2006 12:42:19 AM

hi Kevin .. what part of those knives are you going to engrave , if it is the blades it cant be done with the hammer and chisel or even with a grs or Lindsay power assist . the blades are hardened at the factory and unless you have a diamond panagraph you will not be able to cut them .. Ron p.

Ron Nott
5/1/2006 8:51:39 AM

At this point in my career (all of 6 weeks) I am not even thinking about the blades. Just the frame. I'm not even ready to do that(posting questions as I think of them otherwise I'll forget).

Kevin Monahan
5/1/2006 12:59:59 PM

When I engraved the scales of the Buck knives I used carbide. I can't say what would happen if you tried Glensteel, but I suspect they would dull quickly. And, if you have not used carbide yet, let me warn you that when they chip, it is usually very small and looks like a dimple in the very point. ANY variation in the way the graver is cuttting should be regarded as a reason for careful inspection and resharpening. I engrave as a hobby and started only about 18 months ago. Sometimes we who are new to the craft remember the pitfalls better than the very generous professionals who monitor the Forum and provide answers. (Also, I cut the design I intended to use twice in pratice plates before I attempted the knives. The knives are very reasonably priced, but the plates are easier to cut and even more reasonably priced. Oh, yes, while not a comment on engraving technique, I had the questionable judgement to spend a great deal of effort on the scroll design side before I put the lettered inscription on the other - I was lucky with the inscription and my son now carries the knife in the leather case I made for him. The inscription is of the form, "Son and daugher-in-law, Married on the date". My advice is that you should do any inscription before you do the decorative part.

Lester Holmes
5/1/2006 7:02:28 PM

Kevin .. if you are wanting to engrave the frame or bolsters that should be fairly easy .. i think the frame is brass and the bolsters are nickle silver they are soft and easy to cut with any type of chisel .. Ron p.

Ron Nott
5/1/2006 8:47:53 PM

Kevin,
I assume you are talking about the 525 Buck knives sold by GRS. These are made special for them with a 400 series stainless steel. They can be cut with a Glensteel or high speed steel graver. The regular 525 Buck can be brutal. The carbide will work as well. Many engravers use them almost exclusively. If you have the proper sharpening equipment, they are just as easy to use except for some safety issues invloved in sharpening that is explained in the included instructions. Carbide will chip instead of dull compared to high speed gravers. Sometimes just a tiny bit or sometimes they break BIG.
What metals require carbide???? You will KNOW when you get that metal! When your high speed gravers just dull on contact or chip, you'll have to use carbide.

Rex Pedersen
5/1/2006 10:38:31 PM

Hi Kevin,
I keep losing this response because I'm taking too long to type so here goes again. I have engraved alot of stainless between knives, revolvers and custom chopper stuff. Not all stainless is created equal. I've actually encountered three types on one revolver - what fun! Overall, I have had the best results using the GRS X-7 High Speed Steel graver sharpened with a 70 degree face with both the face and heel polished on the porcelain wheel. The folk at GRS have told me that the 525 handles on the Bucks that they sell are 410 stainless. I've engraved both 304 and 303 and know the GRS 525s can't be 410. Being the obsessive compulsive person that I am in needing to know what I'm cutting, I contacted Buck knives and they confirmed that the GRS 525 is actually made fom 302/304 which is as soft as you can go without sacrificing corrosion resistance. It may help you to look at the Online Materials Database (www.matlib.com) and research the Brinnel Hardness for whatever stainless you may want to engrave. The lower the number the better; where 410 stainless has a hardness of 630 and 304 has a hardness of 123. This has helped me to better estimate how long a job will take and how difficult it might be. It's also a something I've learned the hard way (no pun intended) being fairly new to the art myself. I hope that passing this on can be of help. Chris

Christopher Malouf
5/3/2006 11:31:52 PM

Thanks to all of you for your responses. Lots of great info out there and this forum is a great help. After reading all of the repsonses, I think I'll stick to brass (just kidding). Looks like there is going to be more gravers in my pile in the very near future. More toys. Boy will my wife be mad.

Thanks again.

Kevin Monahan
5/4/2006 11:56:55 AM

Christopher,

I think the web site is www.matweb.com. www.matlib.com is the math library, also a good site.

Thanks,

Kevin

Kevin Monahan
5/4/2006 11:58:44 AM

Oops - you are right Kevin - www.matweb.com and not matlib.com. Thanks for catching that. Must've only had one eye open at midnight last night. Never been to the math library but I have a feeling it might not be as fruitful to engraving as the materials database. Chris

Christopher Malouf
5/4/2006 1:46:50 PM

Chris,

You are right in the fact that the Buck 525/525 has a 304 (un-heat treated) stainless handle but the knives made for GRS are made from from 410. I did some checking with the right people to verify this.

Several engravers have substantiated the significant difference in engravability between the standard 525/526 Buck knives and the special version made for GRS out of 410 stainless (the blades are exactly the same material for both versions). I would add one way to definitely tell the difference in the case of the 525 it that only the GRS 525 comes with the polished blade. The standard Buck 525 does NOT have a polished blade…it has a sanded blade. Only the standard Buck 526 knife has the polished blade along with ALL the GRS 525/526 knives which also have polished blades. In the case of the 526, there are only two ways to tell if it is the GRS 410 version. 1) by the engravability and 2) by the label on the box. If is labeled B526-SP5-0, then it is the GRS version. The 525 is labeled B525-SP23-0 for the GRS version.

Also, concerning the problem with "log in" time on the forum. We now changed that to allow longer log in time so your posts can be written. Hope this will help.



Rex Pedersen
5/4/2006 3:58:57 PM

Hi Rex, Thank-you for clarifying the differences with those knives. I've engraved a bunch of the GRS knives. They're great for trying new things while ramping up for a new project. Thank-you again for fixing the login timeout - I figured I was just typing slow ... as I usually do. Chris

Christopher Malouf
5/4/2006 9:48:17 PM